The TelenatorThese guys are a great example of other experienced recording people who are genuinely trying to be helpful, particularly to those getting started — no arrogance, attitudes and the like. I enjoy the tone of his articles. It occurred to me last night that I may actually know Joe or at least have met him. He used to live in Murfreesboro, which happens to be a music hot spot where I frequented and where my musical son spends a lot of his time. There is a great music scene all around Eastern TN and into Asheville, NC, even though I spend most of my time at the beaches at the other end of NC these days.
The TelenatorI realise this is an older thread, but I had meant to chime in earlier then forgot.
Of all of Variety of Sound’s wonderful plugins — and I have and regularly use them all — the epicVerb is the most troublesome. Not only does it have the tendency to crash the works (it used to lock up my Cubase solid!), you should note that every factory preset on epicVerb comes with the volume level on output set to a dangerously high level. I’m talking high enough to damage ears and speakers quickly. Who knows why.
I fired up epicVerb recently after months of disuse precisely because of that reason. Last month I made the wise decision to ditch this plugin for good (barring, of course, the possibility that Bootsy may finally update this one too and fix all problems).
Now, obviously, you could suggest that we all simply go into Presets, reduce the volume output to something sane and then Save, but I think I’ve just had it with this plug. I’ve had other issues with this plugin, too, as others have obviously in the half dozen threads I have seen about it. Strange to say, but I find its reverb, tails, parameters, etc., to be too much of a good thing — constant overkill. Yes, I could go fix these as well, but for all this trouble I might as well choose any of several I like much better. I find, for example, even the free permanent demo version of Ambience to be a much more usable reverb. So don’t shed a tear if you find epicVerb too much trouble to bother with, and choose to move on to the many other freebies available.
The TelenatorSome very valid points you have here that I am overlooking. Certainly, I think we would all like to see Frits atop a powerful little company and doing great financially. Exposure and use leads to many things, the most basic of which is possibly price support. Let’s be honest, as both DAWs Podium and REAPER are worth (my estimate) more like $200 as is at the very least. Just compare them with some of the other junk that is out there.
Next, greater interest and purchase always leads to something. I would expect a course of improvements in features, perhaps a half dozen or so big and small each year over the next few years. I really tend to forget about this most likely scenario.
I mentioned licensing only in passing. First, I had no real choice; I can’t risk running any DAW on a single core. My audio computer is doing ‘okay’ but I’m constantly pushing its dual core to the edge, and I truly need to replace it later this year. (Here comes another season of ramen noodles and peanut butter sandwiches.) The other thing was that I am a sucker for cheap software. I can’t tell you how many $20 to $30 synths I’ve picked up along the way. They drop some $100+ thing down cheap and I’ll buy it. Considering how pretty Podium appeared, back before I even knew how well-thought out it was, buying it was without a second thought.
Yes, I completely agree, it has some real eye-poking features missing, but so does REAPER, another DAW that costs less than a night out on the town or a dinner for two. The more I’ve tried and seen the other much more expensive options the more things I have found these others lacking. Face it, they are all flawed, a few of them horribly. Just for good example, the source code for Cakewalks’ SONAR is so old the newer devs don’t even know what they’re doing half the time. What exciting new bugs they create every time they go in to ‘fix’ something!
If I had the time, or perhaps someday I will, I want to post a concise list of all the things wrong with, let’s say, the top-selling or most popular dozen DAWs. I really think it would blow the average newbie’s mind.
The TelenatorHmm, I don’t know about rating with numbers here. Nothing wrong with that, but I think I’d rather just post my opinion in general. I’ve given this whole issue an awful lot of thought, probably starting from the day I decided to license my Podium and give it a full go as my main DAW. Like every other DAW I’ve tested or used at any length, I soon found that I really need a two-DAW situation to get everything I need done, but I’ll say exactly the same for REAPER and any other I’ve had (I’m originally a Cubase refugee).
After long consideration, this is my stance on Zynewave and this wonderful Podium:
If Frits seemed to me to really want to push this product hard and had some kind of clear plan and rough schedule of coming improvements, then I would talk this Podium up a lot more than I do. As it is now, I’ll mention Podium in various threads where people are discussing which other DAWs they use and like. More and more infrequently, I’ll also say a few brief words about why I like Podium so much.
But I am somewhat double-minded about this. Honestly, as I’ve reached the stage of knowing just about everything about Podium, I’d just as soon that certain other musicians didn’t know about it. I suppose if I were just engineering somewhere — just another cog in the gears of some big studio crew — I wouldn’t care at all about what software anyone uses, but since I am still in the business as a musician and a creative artist I have become much less outgoing and public about the things I use to achieve the sounds I seek.
I’m even guilty of subterfuge — you’ve got people raving on about some instrument, FX or especially some touted brand of plugins, and I don’t even bother to chime in and explain any weaknesses I’ve found or what crap the software might be. I say, wow! buy it! — let them spend $400-500 on a DAW that doesn’t work any better than Podium (some, far worse!) and let them spend $200 and up for ‘name’ plugins when I have free or $20 ones that actually work better. How comical and sad to see people waste loads of money and their time, then read them fanboi about it in some ridiculous thread.
This reticence doesn’t apply to friends and colleagues, but I apply this to items beyond Podium. I’ll post cool discoveries, whether effects or instruments I’ve come across, in the Zynewave Forums here but won’t bother to say even a word on any other boards. Of course, some of the more active forums don’t need much ‘help’; even so, I find things get overlooked sometimes on these. Another reason is attitude — I believe very strongly in the command to not ‘throw pearls to swine’, and the sort of behavior I find in some places encourages me to avoid any mention of anything that might give a leg up. It’s just not worth the trouble, if you ask me. I don’t look at music as a competition, but it must be admitted that there is a competitive nature and especially in our current era.
So, if Frits and the small, dedicated and rather quiet lot of you are content to have Podium cruise along somewhat ‘under the radar’ just like it does these days, then I am most happy to oblige.
The TelenatorThat’s how it used to be and almost exclusively — makers issuing updates just to get free adverts and their product’s name back in the news.
But this scene is far different now. A prime example is Bootsy’s Variety of Sound series of freeware effects. A reissue of the Rescue, a style of channel saturation effect, just came out two days ago now sporting what he calls ‘Stateful Saturation’ as has already been added to newest versions of his other most excellent effects. The sound is immediately heard as vastly improved, so this update is another ‘must have’ for those of us using his line.
Interesting to our topic, too, is that he builds using SynthEdit, which means all of his effects are locked into place as 32-bit only. In fact, I like his work so much it was one of the leading issues in any possible switch to a 64-bit Podium.
Otherwise, the updates I’ve had to grab and install in the last 6 months have all been for much more than trifles or cosmetics. Martinic’s Combo V (an awesome clone of the Continental ‘Suitcase’ Organ) last week was reissued with greatly improved stability and controls.
With so many and lately so often, I only jump on them when it is something truly important to the sound and/or functioning of the item. All of u-he’s synths are undergoing important updates. That will mean unavoidable re-installs within a few weeks. Of course, this post isn’t even considering all the brand new software that is coming available at an incredible pace.
The TelenatorWell, I think THIS takes care of all thoughts concerning the touch screen as it applies to us, don’t you think?
The TelenatorI’ve done it, too — forgot I’d used some plugin long ago, never had a chance to finish the project, etc.
Plugins all have a unique identifier (e.g., j7X1), except for a freakish few, a perfect example is the Arturia minimoog V original, that one they were giving away free in honor of Bob Moog the day their server also caught on fire from too many requests. (I grabbed mine at 4 a.m. because that is the best virtual software clone of the Minimoog ever made, and I saw that the demand was going to be overwhelming. You should have read the whining, threats and cussing over at KVR forums from the spoiled Entitlement Generation who weren’t able to get theirs immediately that day. Utterly disgraceful.)
Now, some makers give major updates a new ID and some don’t. DAWs read these IDs to know one VST from another. Also, Podium does not always load two or more of the same ID’ed dll without going in and using the renaming trick on any copies, although occasionally it will. I run both V1 and V2 of TyrellN6 — the V1 has no FX and uses some other preset banks, but both versions have the same ID. I added ‘V1’ to the older dll because it wouldn’t load alongside V2 otherwise.
Remember that Podium is one of those hosts that normally uses ‘relative’ plugin paths unless you tell it otherwise. And it can still find a plug if moved to one folder away usually, as long as the item is still inside the parent VSTPlugins folder. A very helpful feature for those of us who reshuffle or house clean once a year!
I basically like the whole construct, except for one big problem. If you have 20-30 ongoing projects as I do, If you update your PluginDatabase, maybe because a new and awesome VST or VSTi has just been released, you then have to click ‘Load PluginDatabase’ and click Save on every one of the unfinished projects, if you want the new plug available for use in those 20-30. This, mates, is totally nuts. I like the setup otherwise, as I said, but there really needs to be a global loading option, New instruments and numerous updates that Podium will not necassarily recognise are released every couple of days lately. After I had collected a good half-dozen new and needed to update my database, I then had to spend a maddening hour-plus updating each project from the updated database. It’s a complete pain and time waster.
The TelenatorAll very valid question and remarks you have here.
No, I don’t need it. Only goof-ball setups like Kontakt and such choke a PC’s memory by loading every file or sample in certain enclosed instruments. Otherwise, nope, I’ve never lacked for memory, and I won’t bother with any plugin that makes that demand.
‘In 5 years’ — yes, that’s what I always tell people. But then, everybody was saying the same thing 5 years ago, remember? I just finished a plugins and instruments search for 64s and too many of my favourites still aren’t available. Too many bad reports concerning jBridge, too, so I have scrapped the idea, at least for Podium so far. REAPER has its own internal bridging offered, and reports are much better. I could try it with that DAW but I’m now leaning against this also.
Things are running too smoothly all around as it is to start fooling around with more folders, setups and then keeping things straight. I have too many other needed functions eating up my time already to add more.
The TelenatorSo much I could respond to in your short but content-packed post, MLS.
First, to dispense with and get onto the more urgent. Compare — hmm, doesn’t the mixer on Mixbus look strangely similar to certain other things? A small touch of Motu DP8 but even bigger nod to UAD plugins and others in the $200-plus-each range? Yes, very interesting throughout.
I want to clarify that my discussion of the whole REAPER ‘thing’ and experience is that many many — in fact, even I, did not really understand that DAW and hardy anything they were attempting to do, and also the raving of their dedicated users . . . until I got right in there and tore into it. Truly a revelation, and I actually must thank Zynewave for all of it. It came back when I was struggling with certain features and a situation with Podium — a mere hurdle as I look back. But I almost jumped ship; I had already purchased REAPER at nearly the same time I licensed Podium (I’m one of those ‘backup paranoids’ you’ve probably met), but REAPER sat unused. As I stayed with Podium but brought the other online and up to snuff, I was delighted. Having both of these under one’s belt is a dangerous setup. It is to my mind unsurpassed (and shockingly cheap too)!
Ah, cute, sweet Ableton. My oldest son will use no other. I could convert but won’t. I understand Ableton. It has several advantages, particularly for Dub and loops and segment work. I gladly boast that my son has just mixed for a Grammy-winning artist, using only his LIve 8 and probably only Live’s own plugs — effects and instruments. Some of his own material seems as close to breaking big as we could want. I see how many of the younger composers and musicians can like it so much. But I came to the track-based DAWs like Podium, still licking my wounds from the total crash and burn of yet another (SONY DAW but largely hardware) studio. Trained originally on all tape starting about mid-’70s, it was not easy, but software such as Podium ‘saved me’ from a fate I shudder to think about. I rarely knock Ableton, but it does continue to have its serious problems: Plugin Latency Compensation still isn’t fixed going into Live 9, and it has so many issues with 3rd-party plugins that it’s been nicknamed ‘Disableton’ by the industry, including some of its own users. If you are a DJ, you might better get it, but I can’t recommend it for serious track, standard rock, pop, certainly classical(!) recording and mixing. The price puts it up there with Cubase anyway. Costly.
I have only passing knowledge of UVI stuff, but hear good things. This REX issue is everywhere. REAPER is attempting to deal with, seems to be very slowly getting there. I’ve been avoiding the whole thing, hoping all will have things sorted by the time many of us just can’t put it off any longer. P.S. I try to use only WAV for audio also.
The TelenatorAs it’s being revealed, there are actually several others in the Podium price range or else having some similar status, either as having a dedicated core group of users, even perhaps a cult-like following with some, or finally having a certain odd lack of features that restricts them from completely doing battle in the big leagues.
I offer Mixbus and Ohm Studio as examples of two newer ones that are still not widely known or used. Expect more every few months until we hit the soon-coming watershed.
I will put this a different way than I normally do in our feature requests lists: Being extremely keen as I am of Podium, I have studied the situation of Podium and then went on to study certain other DAWs I had not used yet and the several others I have, ignoring for the most part consideration of price in my research. My pastime and best stress relief is a continued study in pro recording, physics of sound, and of course in music, My conclusion, having owned a couple of businesses during my daytime working years, is very plainly that Podium could do much better than it does currently for sales, use and overall interest — IF it would start by adding my Short List of Features I have listed and discussed several times and in several places on the forum. Yes, it really is that simple. Further, I would hope to have made available a modest advertising budget. Many companies merely throw their advert dollars up against a wall to see if anything will stick. But there is much one can do to get the word out and get noticed without the need to spend a small fortune.
I was schooled in professional writing at university every bit as much as I was music and recording in the tonmeister program. In fact, I sidelined in English originally because the Music Dept. kept me so stupid busy I had little time to perform live and play my stinking instrument! For example Fridays was 6 hours conducting every week. Insane! The point here I’m trying to get at is that part of that curriculum was Public Relations, the mouthpiece of advertising. In PR, it is often amazing how much one can accomplish if one is willing to work hard, basically become a perfectionist with words, and most important know and be able to write and talk well about the product(s) in question. Although the perfect time to strike regarding Podium was probably a couple years in the past, it certainly hasn’t fallen off a cliff yet or sunk into oblivion. I believe it could make a comeback, and I tend to favour underdogs in the first place.
I want to address sobaka’s remarks about REAPER in closing. That DAW is in some ways just as tweakable and requiring certain customizations as is Podium, something I greatly enjoy in both, although the exact features that can and need to be tweaked are somewhat different in each. However, in the end, and if done with much forethought and knowledge, the results are about the same. As alex was careful to point out, the more knowledgable about DAWs and modern recording you are, the more REAPER will reward you. You get out of that DAW — and Podium to a degree — only what you put into it.If I had either one any more well-oiled and tuned, I suppose they might record and mix for me at this point. But be aware that I have spent numerous hours to get there — and also more time than the average person in the careful selection and grooming of all DAW-related software.
This is a subject and area where many REAPER-ites fail badly. You can see it in the results of some and the resulting forum attitudes of an annoying few. There are some over there that you just cannot help no matter how hard you try. Compared to Podium, there is an even steeper learning curve, particularly at first, and double the manual size, because the features of it go deep and one’s learning there can be almost bottomless or endless. Honestly, I can’t say which of these two I think is better, since both have much-desired and great function. If I were to pick REAPER because of its longer list of features, I immediately have to look back at Podium and see that in some regard it is better for not going overboard on the latest ‘nifty’ features. Sometimes REAPER shoots itself right in the foot for trying to be all things to all blokes. One example: It will ‘go buggy’ at times for up to a month between releases, because the devs sometimes attempt to do too much too quickly and end up having to take one step back! In any case, I really can’t say enough about how I was extremely lucky in choosing and remaining with these two. This is even before we consider the incredible price of each one. I often put in 16-hour work sessions day after day due to the continuing inspiration I receive from either or both.
With DAWs in general and their many sorts of users, I find that too many want everything to be Easy Street. Hey, I like easy, too, doesn’t everybody? But with any of these DAWs, if one isn’t willing to put in the hard work — at least up front — it won’t matter which one they choose or how much the cost. Podium is worth 1000 times Pro Tools if Podium feels like an extension of your right hand or main instrument. The same goes for all of these wonderful plugins of today. A $200 plug isn’t worth 5 cents if one doesn’t know what it does and where best to use it. The proper tools for the proper job, mates!
Nice thread topic. Cheers!
The Telenator
The TelenatorPerhaps you were wise enough or just lucky and loaded the higher fidelity MP3’s in 320mbps. If you are handing out your tunes to others, MP3’s at this rate are certainly passable, assuming the mix was okay and you dithered down to 16-bit WAV or perhaps used FLAC format in your DAW before converting to MP3 at 320.
Tricky to state plainly with all the numbers flying about in my first post, but I tried to point out that if uploading MP3’s in 320 to SoundCloud their converter probably won’t choke the life out of your music. In fact, things may sound okay, but there’s always that fair chance it won’t. The most critical thing is to LISTEN to any tunes you upload right after it says done converting. If your ears say it sounds good enough, then it is. If what you hear rots, yank it down and return with a lossless file format that they accept, the prime one being some WAV file.
It’s not mentioned much, but good to know that in the lossy audio format of MP3, even at 320kbps as much as 90% of the original audio content is removed so the file can be compressed quite small. So imagine how much is missing if at 192kbps! MP3 uses psycho-acoustic algorithms to fool the listener into not missing that removed content. Sound scary enough yet? Yeah, that’s why youngsters who listen to low-quality MP3’s, say, in 192 all day long on those little players instead of at least 320, regularly suffer from chronic listening fatigue.
Below 320 the bass starts to get wiped right away, the ultra-highs, and to some extent the highs, except they get badly smeared as well. That’s the first of problems you will hear if SoundCloud or any bad conversion mangles your music. The most common description is, “No bass left in my tune, and the highs were all strange and swirling sounding.”
The TelenatorJust wanted you to see the related story.
Either this year or certainly next, every laptop that isn’t a complete rubbish model will have touch screen. See if I’m right about this.
The Telenatordruid, I’m glad now I waited to respond to your latest comment, as I ran into an article that discusses some of this as I was checking my mail and news just now. It would have been great had it run another page or so, but I think you’ll find it very interesting nonetheless. I have a hunch you just saw it already, but if not the link is over in FUTURE at the forum. I placed it in a new thread titled “Big Fight” that might also suit your involvement/comments.
Regarding MuLab, I think you are correct. That is a most curious situation and DAW. They do have this sort of unusual (I guess) and tight little core following. You might be interested to know that I looked things there over pretty well when I first decided to go with Podium instead. Despite the several unique strengths of that DAW, I saw Podium the clear advantage. For one, MuLab has this odd kind of semi-modular thing going on that just seemed to rub me the wrong way. Beyond that, and perhaps my personal quirk only, the software somehow just didn’t ‘feel’ right. I know, I know . . .
The TelenatorI don’t recall which thread, either, but I seem to remember the reference. If he intends to pursue the tablet idea, then touch will come part and parcel. I recall him saying advancements on the tablet version would be carried over to the PC edition.
I expect practically all DAWs will at least try to pull this one off. It just seems logical since almost all of the younger PC users are asking for touch screens. If you like the idea of a touch screen, then I suppose you might pursue it as well. I just happen to prefer the old keyboard and recently touchpad method. I rarely use a mouse anymore.
Keep in mind that this statement from MuLab comes from a DAW that only started using multicore processing with what, this most recent edition 5 or something? I’m not sure I would hold my breath.
The TelenatorYou know, at first I used to think, Sheesh, these feature requests are so redundant.
But then it dawned on me that many users, especially the newest ones, were not going back and studying forum threads to give a +1 to former requests. No, they were posting as if never mentioned before.
And I saw that for some 90% of it or more, that they were all asking for the same exact things that we were.